Misc. Word Art

[jazzieal]

Well....I am in a quandry here..I just made a bunch of word art and posted it for ya'll and now Im finding out the copyright, patent and font police, border patrol, Homeland Security and heaven only knows who else is going to be after me !!!!!! All I can say is that if I get locked up someone please bring me a laptop, a cable connection and cases of Diet Coke with Lime...thank goodness we don't have a sheriff around here or he might be knocking on my door !..and TAKE UP A COLLECTION FOR MY LEGAL FEES!!!
I have bought word art and I never saw any credit given for the font type...and I know some of them are free fonts because I have some of them..they say to give credit for the design
of the word art itself to the designer but I have never seen anyone list the font they used..or give anyone credit for it..I don't alter the font..just might add something to the word art like a heart or a doodle or something I make...
I give credit if I use a poem or something to the person who wrote it if its available.
SOOO do I need to try to go into hiding or what

[jazzieal]

ROFL!!!

Well, Dr. Ducky, if I have to wear the label on the outside and have to put the size on it, I'm going to copyright the size, 'cause it's taken me 55 years to develope this size and shape, and I ain't giving no one else credit for it, and God help any of you neenees that try to copy it, duplicate, or use it in any way, shape or form!

You're warned now... Beware the wrath of Granny!!!

Dr Ducky...LOL Marion you have a new name..I think thats better than shrinkydink..have you seen the precious little ducky with the long long feathers that Muma has...I think he
needs to be our Mascot..and I second that emotion Granny...I dont want anyone trying to do all that stuff to my size either..I have worked hard to get all the fat I have now and I have finally got it all sorta kinda distributed evenly....well amost anyway...my posterior seems to be spreading lately...sitting at this computer so much could not be cause of that I just know it!!

[Marion]

Jazz, I'd say don't worry about it. I have been reinstalling fonts I used when my computer went down last month so I decided to look at the little text thingy that they attach to it, just for fun and because I have an inquiring mind, so I have been looking at terms of use on literally dozens and dozens, and I couldn't find a single one that had a copyright on it. Some mentioned that if you were to redistribute it onto another share site, to link it to them. One mentioned he would give you a "Dutch rub down" (being Dutch, I don't even know what that is). Sounds like it could be fun, so bring it on!!!
I just don't think they want you to sell them and pass them of as your own.
So no one is going to come and hunt you down for using them in your word-art .

Marion

[srussell]

Everyone, I really wouldn't worry about the font police showing up anytime soon. If you're creating a layout for personal use, it should never be a problem. Jazz & Crops - knock yourself out!

now music... that's a whole different topic!

[jazzieal]

Jazz, I'd say don't worry about it. I have been reinstalling fonts I used when my computer went down last month so I decided to look at the little text thingy that they attach to it, just for fun and because I have an inquiring mind, so I have been looking at terms of use on literally dozens and dozens, and I couldn't find a single one that had a copyright on it. Some mentioned that if you were to redistribute it onto another share site, to link it to them. One mentioned he would give you a "Dutch rub down" (being Dutch, I don't even know what that is). Sounds like it could be fun, so bring it on!!!
I just don't think they want you to sell them and pass them of as your own.
So no one is going to come and hunt you down for using them in your word-art .

Marion

Thanks Dr. Marion, I knew I could count on you to set me straight...and sign me up for one of those "Dutch rub downs" too..sounds kinda kinky LOL...(Dr. Arthur Ritis has me in so many kinks now I cant imagine more hehehehe) but then it again it might get rid of some of them...
So based on your wise information I am going to continue to make word art if I want too and If I get into trouble I will tell them You said it was ok...Im sure that will do the trick.! .

[Maggie]

I'm sorry guys, but I just don't think anyone here is going to give you the permission you want or need. I don't think they can definitavely.

Part of the work of design. We learn what the rules are for each set of paper we use, each designer's stuff we use, each font we want to use (for design purposes, embies, etc.), we give credit where it was wanted or due. Not a big deal. Often it's as simple as an email to the person asking if we can use it.

To answer your question as to clipart software...the software company likely spent a lot of time getting permissions to be able to commercialize their product--they did the same research we have to do. Part of the cost of "designing".

As much file sharing as goes on here, I want to know not just that the stuff is "free", but where it came from (web site, author, etc). For example, clip art needs to truly be free and not part of a software program you purchased at one time. Only share what you've made and you don't have to worry about it at all. If I share other things, then there is reason to feel skiddish at conversations like this. But no one can assauge our conscience...we need to find out and be sure.

No one likes stressful conversations, but that's part of the dirty work of design and file sharing. Welcome to the world of design!

[Maggie]

Russell said, as did AngelWithin: "If you're creating a layout for personal use,"

Everything I make lately is not just for my personal use, but to share with SBM and it's community. A bit different than "personal use". And then, SMB owns it, and potentially resells it. We have designers here who are making things to sell.

So...it always gets more tangled than an easy answer.

[Maggie]

Copyright Free Shapes

http://www.freephotoshop.com/html/free_shapes.html

Yeah! A source! This website still holds copywrite for the actual groupings (meaning, in plain English...the groupings may not be re-distributed by others on the web--you have to go get them there yourself unless you ask permission to host their list), but the shapes themselves ARE ALL copyrite free!!!

I guarantee you'll find a few shapes you can use. So, now I know that for sure using these I'm okay...makes me a happy girl!

[jazzieal]

I don't feel like I've done anything wrong using fonts to make word art...I don't sell them..just for my pesonal use and sharing here..I don't change them or alter them..I don't use them for making a new font and taking credit for that font..if I were a designer making things for sale I would never use anything anyone else made...all designers know, or should know, that everything in the work you make for sale must all be made by the designer themselves..If sbm sells what we make and post here for free it would seem they should give credit where credit is due..whats the difference in using a font in a LO than using it to make some word art??? Im not a legal brain but it seems to me its the same thing..I give the proper credit for things I use in my LO's...papers, kits, embies, and so on..I guess this subject could be debated from now till the cows come on and each would have a different view point...but this is mine on the fonts and my part in this discussion is over now...LOL I appreciate all the posts and other comments..its how we learn..from each other...

[Maggie]

Jazz says: "If sbm sells what we make and post here for free it would seem they should give credit where credit is due"

If we aren't giving "credit where it's due"...how can they?

Often, the original author just wants the courtesy of us not taking implied credit for the work ourselves and saying: "Font: XYZ by ABC"

If we designed the letters, we can take credit for the letters, if not, it would probably cover us all mor to say who gets the credit.

Certainly something I'll continue to explore before I post any word art using pre-established fonts (other than "standard" and easily recognizably copyrighted fonts: Arial, Helvetica, Times New Roman, Comic Sans, courier.)

As far as I can tell, the answers given so far seem out of context (for art use) or opinion -- neither of which are conclusive. Until such time that we find something from a trusted legal source that helps us better understand the legalities, I would suggest that we either give credit to the font used (implying that we did NOT design it ourselves, which is courteous anyway on forums), or that we use the standard fonts listed.

Even though we are providing it for free...that hurts font designers who do not have to sell the font for us to have use of it. No...it's not the whole font, but should they not decide who gets to use it (if it's a for sale font), and get credit for their work (even if it's a free font). It really don't take that much effort to include in the post when sharing embies: font XYZ by ABC. At least if someone wanted to buy the post, we are giving them free advertising in exchange for the use of it.

And, I'm guessing here at formalities, not knowing the stipulations or requirements of each font. I do not think this is a conversation to blow off simply because it seems complex, detailed, or inconveinient. I think the conversation deserves some standard of use to be font (surely other communities have found guides, or come up with standards for font use we could draw from).

Thanks for the patience and I hope it helps. There is still plenty of room for creativity even without fonts if need be. I'll continue to look into it.

[crops2dawn]

First I want to say Maggie you are making a mountain out of a mole hill! Instead of reseaching all the fine print on fonts why dont you look up in SBM the facts about having signitures such as yours! In the handbook some where it says you can not have a signiture that displays an advertisement in it, that my friend is a big NO NO here. But I thought since you are having fun finding facts you would like to address that one. But by all means do it in another post! PLease!! I am completely done discussing this fact. i will continue making my word art as I have fun doing so, if you find it not worthy by all means do not download any of it! If you also find my work or others unappropriate contact SBM> I am sure they will inform me if I am breaking any laws, in the meantime I going dancing and will continue with my work!!

[Marion]

My last thought on this subject is that if it is true as you are saying Maggie, every single email, or word document, powerpoint presentation etc containing any other font or any picture attached to it, that is no our own, that is being forwarded could potentially be illegal! Seems pretty silly to me!

Next thing you know, we can't re-distribute our old clothing to the Salvation Army or Goodwill, because we could potentially lose customers and new sales from the clothing store! Better not donate food to a shelter, the restaurants and grocery stores will lose sales! etc. etc.

We have taken this too far and should use common sense in this

Marion

[Maggie]

Art and redistrubted fonts do not necessarily follow the same standards as clothing. I'll continue to look into it as I learn to be creative because I want to share only what is appropriate to share. I think we'd already covered that crops2dawn was in the right. The thread diverged some from that main point, but it became a topic of discussion many seemed to be interested in and responsive to. It seemed a worthy topic to explore and continue.

You know, any discussion should be meaningful without being considered to attack any individual or person, as this clearly was not...as others read the whole thread they will see that this was not a personal issue, but became a side note of discussion. I supported your personal work wholeheartedly and so did everyone else. It seems a bit late for your request is all. It's already here.

Surely we can all think things through without making issues personal. If we can't discuss issues relevant to the process, we don't need to be in public forums. It's the place for learning and development. If you want to keep people, we all have to stay open to whatever level of the process each person is in, even if that's not where we are.

Apologies: I was not aware that ads for other companies were not allowed in signature lines and will be removing mine. I appreciate that being shared with me, though I felt the tone was inappropriate. A friend would have just pointed it out in a matter like that.

I would hope we all help one another with courtesy . I had only added the siggy to try to be supportive in another request I had. I'm sorry it didn't work out.

Being thoughtful and being too uptight are two totally different things. I think we are to be thoughtful artists. I hope even in our requests and discussions, we affirm all people as they search. Some concerns and complaints are just valid and an apology is in order, or adjustments are needed. I'd like to see more of that. Everything doesn't have to be happy go lucky to be fun. With freedom comes responsibility. Just the way the world is. I'm not setting that standard, and I'm not the police, but I do hope to rise to the standards out there, if there are any. I just want to know what they are as it relates to this.

I'm truly sorry if anyone does not feel affirmed or lifted up--that hasn't been the intent and I think anyone who reads the thread would see that.

I still think this topic is a worthy investigation for all of us attempting to delve further into word art. I'm not sure it is something that has been covered and I'm interested in knowing more about it, not just opinions or what one person does, but what the standard is. I'm a seeker, and a learner, and I'll continue to do that with or without the support of some primary players on the boards. If anyone wants to follow me on that journey, send me a private message.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the inconvenience or frustration some apparently experienced. Not intended at all.

Regards,
Maggie

[Maggie]

As to PowerPoint presentations, the presenter isn't sharing the file in that instance, so it's a bit of a different consideration.

There are times when a font's consideration has to be taken into account (marketing, logos, etc).

[jazzieal]

Since all this discussion has come about reguarding fonts I went straight to the top to clear this up for myself and here is the reply I recieved from the US Gov Copyright office..
MY LETTER TO THEM
I downloaded some free fonts from a site on the internet and I
used some to make some word art for scrapbook layouts..not to sell..just for
my personal use..I did share the word art with others in my scrapbook
forum..when I did someone said that it was not legal to use the fonts in
this manner. I did not post any credit for where I got the fonts as I might
use 4 or 5 different fonts in one design..and they did not all come from the
same place..it would take pages to list the credits for them all. This led to
quiet a discussion in the forum. I wrote to the site that posted the free fonts
and they told me fonts can not be copyrighted but advised me to contact your
office for further information. As I did post the word art in the forum for free
download I do not know what they might be used for by those who might
get them..for example in some scrapbook design that might be sold..
However I did give credit if I used a poem or quote that was written by
someone else..for instance..Shakespear.
For my information and for others who might have the same question, can
you please tell me if I have done something wrong or illegeal by doing this.
Thank you for your reply.

THEIR REPLY
Copyright protection is not available for lettering, fonts, typeface, or typographic ornamentation. In addition, copyright does not protect works, names, titles or short phrases. See http://www.copyright.gov/title37/202/37cfr202-1.html.

If using more substantial portions of protected text, such as a poem or lengthy quote, permission should normally be sought in order to avoid copyright infringement liability. If using work subject to copyright protection without permission, merely giving proper attribution is not a defense to copyright infringement.

However, any work originally published prior to 1923 (such as Shakespeare and the King James bible) and US government works (such as presidential speeches given while in office) are in the public domain in the US and may be freely used.

For further information on copyright duration and how to assess copyright status, please see http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.html, http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15t.html and http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ22.html.


rg

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